Interesting Hand and HOH2 - August 12, 2005
My consecutive winnings streak came to an end this week. Although the week was still a success. My week starting off with a live game, continued with some more live action at a friends cabin, and concluded with some up and down Party Poker results.
There were twelve people playing at a live game I played through work. The plan was to start with six at each table and combine the table once we got down to eight. We started with about 900 chips and blinds started at 5/10. Very first hand at my table there is raising and reraising between two guys until one finally calls after both have committed 400 chips each to the pot preflop. The flop comes J74 all spades. Small blind checks. Initial preflop raiser bets 100. Small blind raises 100 and initial raiser moves all in. Keep in mind that this is the FIRST HAND! The small blind thinks for about 5-10 minutes and then calls. Small blind turns over QQ with a spade. I look at the original raiser and say "show me your aces or kings". He turns over AK...no spades! Just shows that you never know what to expect in a live game.
Blinds went up every half hour so there was plenty of times at a short table to play good poker. I made some good reads and caught some fortunate cards and was able to win the tournament. It was fun to play and there were some experienced poker players at this tournament. My only frustration is not knowing the total payout rules to begin with. Rules were laminated on a card next to me so it is my own fault, but I could have probably made another ten bucks. Total winnings were split between the top three except for $10 which served as a bounty on the last month's winner. I think I could have won that ten bucks earlier in the game. I crippled the prior winner with a value bet on the river when I could have forced her all in and probably picked up the ten bucks.
I went up to a buddy's cabin for the weekend. Normally the weekends are spent playing cards, going out on the boat, playing various games like croquet and bocce ball, but this year we actually played a lot of poker. There were 11 guys and we played various tournaments throughout the weekend. Small stakes, but it was still a lot of fun. The players had various experience so it was very interesting trying to play against players who have lots of experience, players who have a little experience and players who have no experience at all. Amazing how the players who have the least amount of experience can control the tempo of the game. They dictate what the opening bet is and what the breaking point is to fold your blind (if there is a breaking point at all).
Once I got back I played a bit on-line earlier this week and had one night when I was 0-3 in SNGs. The first two games I made good reads on the players hands but ended up getting knocked out of the tournament and the last tournament I finished fourth. The first game, I picked up AT on the button and everyone folded to me. I made it 150 to go with blinds at 25/50. I started the hand out with 1500 chips and the small blind had 725. He calls and the flop comes 279 rainbow. He checks and I decided I was either ahead or way behind. I think he has to have an inbetween hand. One that is not good enough to reraise all in preflop but a hand that he is hoping to catch something. Instead of messing around, I make a bet of 600 into a 350 pot and put him all in. He calls and I think I'm in trouble until he turns over A9. What? Of course a 9 comes on the river which brings me down to 750. I asked him after the hand what he though I had that A9 could beat, but he did not respond. I finally moved all in with 66 and went down when an AQ called and caught a pair.
The second game I was playing against a LAP in the small blind and I called his 2x preflop raise with K7s from the big blind. The flop came rags, 936 rainbow. He put out a small bet and I put him to the test by moving all in. I didn't have enough money to make a small bet without leaving myself pot committed. However, I felt I had enough chips to create folding equity (FE). I pegged him for two overs and as the blind I could have been calling with anything to a 2x bet. He calls with AK and wins the hand.
You could say I played these hands great and I should have won, but I don't think that is entirely accurate. I pegged the hands, but I didn't peg the player. I should have learned a valuable lesson from my weekend at the cabin and known that you have to understand the player before you can beat the player. I should have picked up somewhere in the game or from more time with the player that they were calling stations. For the first guy, I wrote notes on him that he thinks an over pot sized bet all in indicates a bluff and will call with very little. Hopefully I will meet him again. The second guy was a LAP calling station as so many are on party poker.
I've had a friend suggest I move up in limits so that I eliminate the bad players. The theory is that I could play better against better players. I used to think the same thing and it is possible that my style of play is better against players who are capable of folding a hand and realizing how to read the board, but I think it is incorrect to say that I should move up. Players at the lower stakes games are going to make more mistakes. If players make more mistakes, over the long run you should have a greater chance of winning.
I just need to become a better player myself so I can identify the type of player I'm playing against so I can take advantage of those mistakes. The only legitimate reasoning I have heard for moving up in levels to improve your winnings is for the situation where you have worse overall results at the higher limit tables, but the stakes are higher or the rake is less leaving yourself with a chance to make more money. A similar example is a player that plays multiple games a time. They may not win as much playing two games at once instead of only one. But if there results only decline slightly, they may make more money per hour playing two at a time.
Lastly, I wanted to discuss HOH2 (Harrington on Hold Em, Volume 2). Dan Harrington, one of the great tournament poker players wrote an excellent book on tournament poker strategy. There is a big buzz around the poker community because the book is so insightful. I have only read 100 pages of the book and it has already lived up to expectations. Lucky for me, my friend received an extra copy and gave it to me this weekend at the cabin. The 100 pages that I did read (which I need to read another 10 times to fully understand) allowed me to win a tournament two nights ago. After finishing a chapter, I decided to play a tourney when I came up with another AT hand. I had a very aggressive player who was in the CO (one right of the button) with 2200 chips. He was raising the blinds nearly every hand. The blinds were up to 50/100 and I was in second place with 2000 chips. There were only 5/6 players left. I had a legitimate hand and one that I was fairly confident was leading going into the hand.
He raised it to 300 and I wanted to take the hand down right there. My AT is probably the best hand, but it is susceptible to a draw and I would be playing out of position the rest of the way. I raised him to 800 chips. He called. Now this had me worried since I was playing out of position, but I also knew that this LAP was playing most of his hands preflop and I was probably a better player than him. The flop came K72. I could have decided to try to win the hand right there, btu with the money already in the pot, I would most likely had to move in. I wasn't willing to risk my tourney life on AT. He very well could have a K and I wanted to see how my opponent would play the hand so I checked. He checked behind me and the turn was a 7. His check confused me since he is an aggressive player. I checked again. He checks behind me and a king comes on the river. I check and he bets 400 chips.
My first thought was, is this a value bet? Was he slow playing me this whole time? Does he want to suck more money out of me because he has a monster hand? What could he have had that he would play the hand this way? With two sevens and two kings on the board, it was unlikely that he had a set on the flop, unless they were 2s so I discounted a set. Could he have a pair higher than 7? Possible, but my read on this player was that he would have reraised me all in preflop with any pair. Could he have a seven or a king? It is possible, but if he gets any part of that flop, it makes sense for him to take the pot down there. He has to know I have a decent hand to raise back at him and the pot was big enough that he should want to take it down and not let me draw to an Ace or a higher pair. I concluded that he didn't bet on the flop or turn because he was scared and he didn't know how to play his aggressive style post flop. He made a bet on the river to try to pick up the pot. I called and he flipped over Q8 suited and I won a big pot.
I'm not saying I played the hand great because I could have folded the best hand if my opponent had been a bit more aggressive post flop. Although I do think it is a good example of me playing better poker recently. I am thinking more clearly and it has shown in my results. These type of hands make poker so much fun. It's like you are playing a puzzle and you just need to find the right pieces to be successful. Hopefully I can keep it up for a while so I can move up in levels and get some more experience with players that make less mistakes.
There were twelve people playing at a live game I played through work. The plan was to start with six at each table and combine the table once we got down to eight. We started with about 900 chips and blinds started at 5/10. Very first hand at my table there is raising and reraising between two guys until one finally calls after both have committed 400 chips each to the pot preflop. The flop comes J74 all spades. Small blind checks. Initial preflop raiser bets 100. Small blind raises 100 and initial raiser moves all in. Keep in mind that this is the FIRST HAND! The small blind thinks for about 5-10 minutes and then calls. Small blind turns over QQ with a spade. I look at the original raiser and say "show me your aces or kings". He turns over AK...no spades! Just shows that you never know what to expect in a live game.
Blinds went up every half hour so there was plenty of times at a short table to play good poker. I made some good reads and caught some fortunate cards and was able to win the tournament. It was fun to play and there were some experienced poker players at this tournament. My only frustration is not knowing the total payout rules to begin with. Rules were laminated on a card next to me so it is my own fault, but I could have probably made another ten bucks. Total winnings were split between the top three except for $10 which served as a bounty on the last month's winner. I think I could have won that ten bucks earlier in the game. I crippled the prior winner with a value bet on the river when I could have forced her all in and probably picked up the ten bucks.
I went up to a buddy's cabin for the weekend. Normally the weekends are spent playing cards, going out on the boat, playing various games like croquet and bocce ball, but this year we actually played a lot of poker. There were 11 guys and we played various tournaments throughout the weekend. Small stakes, but it was still a lot of fun. The players had various experience so it was very interesting trying to play against players who have lots of experience, players who have a little experience and players who have no experience at all. Amazing how the players who have the least amount of experience can control the tempo of the game. They dictate what the opening bet is and what the breaking point is to fold your blind (if there is a breaking point at all).
Once I got back I played a bit on-line earlier this week and had one night when I was 0-3 in SNGs. The first two games I made good reads on the players hands but ended up getting knocked out of the tournament and the last tournament I finished fourth. The first game, I picked up AT on the button and everyone folded to me. I made it 150 to go with blinds at 25/50. I started the hand out with 1500 chips and the small blind had 725. He calls and the flop comes 279 rainbow. He checks and I decided I was either ahead or way behind. I think he has to have an inbetween hand. One that is not good enough to reraise all in preflop but a hand that he is hoping to catch something. Instead of messing around, I make a bet of 600 into a 350 pot and put him all in. He calls and I think I'm in trouble until he turns over A9. What? Of course a 9 comes on the river which brings me down to 750. I asked him after the hand what he though I had that A9 could beat, but he did not respond. I finally moved all in with 66 and went down when an AQ called and caught a pair.
The second game I was playing against a LAP in the small blind and I called his 2x preflop raise with K7s from the big blind. The flop came rags, 936 rainbow. He put out a small bet and I put him to the test by moving all in. I didn't have enough money to make a small bet without leaving myself pot committed. However, I felt I had enough chips to create folding equity (FE). I pegged him for two overs and as the blind I could have been calling with anything to a 2x bet. He calls with AK and wins the hand.
You could say I played these hands great and I should have won, but I don't think that is entirely accurate. I pegged the hands, but I didn't peg the player. I should have learned a valuable lesson from my weekend at the cabin and known that you have to understand the player before you can beat the player. I should have picked up somewhere in the game or from more time with the player that they were calling stations. For the first guy, I wrote notes on him that he thinks an over pot sized bet all in indicates a bluff and will call with very little. Hopefully I will meet him again. The second guy was a LAP calling station as so many are on party poker.
I've had a friend suggest I move up in limits so that I eliminate the bad players. The theory is that I could play better against better players. I used to think the same thing and it is possible that my style of play is better against players who are capable of folding a hand and realizing how to read the board, but I think it is incorrect to say that I should move up. Players at the lower stakes games are going to make more mistakes. If players make more mistakes, over the long run you should have a greater chance of winning.
I just need to become a better player myself so I can identify the type of player I'm playing against so I can take advantage of those mistakes. The only legitimate reasoning I have heard for moving up in levels to improve your winnings is for the situation where you have worse overall results at the higher limit tables, but the stakes are higher or the rake is less leaving yourself with a chance to make more money. A similar example is a player that plays multiple games a time. They may not win as much playing two games at once instead of only one. But if there results only decline slightly, they may make more money per hour playing two at a time.
Lastly, I wanted to discuss HOH2 (Harrington on Hold Em, Volume 2). Dan Harrington, one of the great tournament poker players wrote an excellent book on tournament poker strategy. There is a big buzz around the poker community because the book is so insightful. I have only read 100 pages of the book and it has already lived up to expectations. Lucky for me, my friend received an extra copy and gave it to me this weekend at the cabin. The 100 pages that I did read (which I need to read another 10 times to fully understand) allowed me to win a tournament two nights ago. After finishing a chapter, I decided to play a tourney when I came up with another AT hand. I had a very aggressive player who was in the CO (one right of the button) with 2200 chips. He was raising the blinds nearly every hand. The blinds were up to 50/100 and I was in second place with 2000 chips. There were only 5/6 players left. I had a legitimate hand and one that I was fairly confident was leading going into the hand.
He raised it to 300 and I wanted to take the hand down right there. My AT is probably the best hand, but it is susceptible to a draw and I would be playing out of position the rest of the way. I raised him to 800 chips. He called. Now this had me worried since I was playing out of position, but I also knew that this LAP was playing most of his hands preflop and I was probably a better player than him. The flop came K72. I could have decided to try to win the hand right there, btu with the money already in the pot, I would most likely had to move in. I wasn't willing to risk my tourney life on AT. He very well could have a K and I wanted to see how my opponent would play the hand so I checked. He checked behind me and the turn was a 7. His check confused me since he is an aggressive player. I checked again. He checks behind me and a king comes on the river. I check and he bets 400 chips.
My first thought was, is this a value bet? Was he slow playing me this whole time? Does he want to suck more money out of me because he has a monster hand? What could he have had that he would play the hand this way? With two sevens and two kings on the board, it was unlikely that he had a set on the flop, unless they were 2s so I discounted a set. Could he have a pair higher than 7? Possible, but my read on this player was that he would have reraised me all in preflop with any pair. Could he have a seven or a king? It is possible, but if he gets any part of that flop, it makes sense for him to take the pot down there. He has to know I have a decent hand to raise back at him and the pot was big enough that he should want to take it down and not let me draw to an Ace or a higher pair. I concluded that he didn't bet on the flop or turn because he was scared and he didn't know how to play his aggressive style post flop. He made a bet on the river to try to pick up the pot. I called and he flipped over Q8 suited and I won a big pot.
I'm not saying I played the hand great because I could have folded the best hand if my opponent had been a bit more aggressive post flop. Although I do think it is a good example of me playing better poker recently. I am thinking more clearly and it has shown in my results. These type of hands make poker so much fun. It's like you are playing a puzzle and you just need to find the right pieces to be successful. Hopefully I can keep it up for a while so I can move up in levels and get some more experience with players that make less mistakes.
posted by Steve K at 5:19 PM
3 Comments:
If you are going to play the hand aggressively, OOP, play it aggressively. The flop is no more likely to have helped him then it is you, and you had a better hand to start with so you still most likely have the best hand.
The one caveat is if this guy will re-re-steal (that is playing Q-hi or some such junk fast on a K hi flop after getting re-raised PF), then your circumspection is slightly more acceptable. Yes the way the hand played out, you won an extra 400, but you also gave him two free cards and two opportunities to play you off the best hand.
Against a 'raising station', I think the best play is probably just to push if you think you have the best hand. Alternatively, flat call, and trap if you hit something. My worry is that by raising 800, you are pretty close to pot committing yourself as the you basically have to push to have any leverage now that the pot is 1600+...
a couple of thoughts.
1: I totally know what you mean when you start running good and making good decisions and you look back and realize 'I wasn't doing this last month, and that's why I was in a dry spell." it's misplaying 1 hand every 20-30 is all it takes, and the results (since it is NL) are severly affected.
2. AT hand from Button. SB call s a raise, and now has 575 left with the pot at 350. You had a marginal hand. If he was going to let it go, he'd have done so to a bet of 200. If he would call that, he would call the all in. Why bet the extra 375? also, I think you represented the han wrong in the blog. if the flop had a 9, he had you beat already, so I assume it was on the turn.
2. K7s and pushing just over FE? A min raise says a lot of things, but it also tells you nothing. If he has a good hand, it is likley v good (AA, KK, AK). If it is not a good hand, it can be anything and he was trying to steal for as little as possible. If it was the former, you are toast. If it is the latter, any flop that doesn't hit you should have you worried. Why bet it? I don;t like naked bluffs until I am totally desparate, I don;t think you were. If you had FE on that hand, you'd have it on the next 8 hands too. Why tangle witha bg stack with a marginal hand that may well be behind with little chance of catching up? Patience is key. I am not a guy who buys into the "4th = 10th" in a SnG idea. cash wise, sure, but plenty of donkeys go out in 10th. few make it to 4th. if you are better than the other players (on average), staying at the table for more hands is in your favor.
4. HOH2 hand: I actually put the guy on a weak A or something, and that's why he bet. I'd have called too. A weak player with an A would have pushed and run into disaster.
a couple of thoughts.
1: I totally know what you mean when you start running good and making good decisions and you look back and realize 'I wasn't doing this last month, and that's why I was in a dry spell." it's misplaying 1 hand every 20-30 is all it takes, and the results (since it is NL) are severly affected.
2. AT hand from Button. SB call s a raise, and now has 575 left with the pot at 350. You had a marginal hand. If he was going to let it go, he'd have done so to a bet of 200. If he would call that, he would call the all in. Why bet the extra 375? also, I think you represented the han wrong in the blog. if the flop had a 9, he had you beat already, so I assume it was on the turn.
2. K7s and pushing just over FE? A min raise says a lot of things, but it also tells you nothing. If he has a good hand, it is likley v good (AA, KK, AK). If it is not a good hand, it can be anything and he was trying to steal for as little as possible. If it was the former, you are toast. If it is the latter, any flop that doesn't hit you should have you worried. Why bet it? I don;t like naked bluffs until I am totally desparate, I don;t think you were. If you had FE on that hand, you'd have it on the next 8 hands too. Why tangle witha bg stack with a marginal hand that may well be behind with little chance of catching up? Patience is key. I am not a guy who buys into the "4th = 10th" in a SnG idea. cash wise, sure, but plenty of donkeys go out in 10th. few make it to 4th. if you are better than the other players (on average), staying at the table for more hands is in your favor.
4. HOH2 hand: I actually put the guy on a weak A or something, and that's why he bet. I'd have called too. A weak player with an A would have pushed and run into disaster.
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