Live Poker - November 10, 2005
This past Sunday I headed to Canterbury card club to play some 3/6 with a friend who came into town for the weekend. As I was driving to the card club I realized that I had a confidence that was contrary to the hope that I felt when I have visited in the past. I have played at Canterbury a handful of times back when I was in college and during the first year or two after college. Thinking back I'm amazed I had a winning session. I lost nearly every time I went. Granted, I was there for the entertainment so I wasn't bummed about it, but I always thought it was because I was up against these great players or "regulars" who knew the dealers by name and spent a lot of time there.
After playing considerably more poker I felt better equipped when I played once this summer. I ended up breaking even which was probably about right for my experience at the time. When I visited this time I had an entirely new perspective. I was expecting to win. The truth is I probably could have made more money playing at home on Party Poker, but playing live is a lot of fun and slightly more enjoyable. The downfall to playing live?
(1) You can only play one game at a time. I have been regularly playing four 2/4 games at a time on party recently. I can handle the speed. I feel I can make solid decisions and might make one bad decision or so every hour. But for every one bad decision I miss on one table, I make up for it by still being a positive expected player on the other three.
(2) It is slower. The number of hands you can play in an hour is considerably less. On the computer hands are dealt instantly, while at the casino you need to wait for the dealer to actually deal the cards. I know, bizarre. People tend to play slower at the casino as well. Some people don't want to give any tells so they play it like the World Series of Poker. Online, there are buttons that you can click (fold, check, raise) so your turn lasts less than a half second.
(3) You might give tells you never knew you had. Do I look a certain way when I'm strong or glance to my left when I'm bluffing? By playing online the only thing you have to be careful about is the speed of your bet (Some players online will bet quickly when they have a hand and slow down when they don't). The most obvious online tell is when someone is chasing a flush. Often times they will quickly call. If you get a very quick call, your opponent is probably on a flush or straight draw.
(4) Waiting. Sometimes you have to wait for a seat to open up. You might wait 2 hours if it a busy time. Online you can fire up a game within seconds.
(5) Tipping. No need to tip online. At the casino you are expected to give a portion of your winnings to the dealer as thanks for him dealing you great cards. Even if he didn't give you great cards at all but you were savvy enough to play them better than your opponents.
(6) Better players. Theoretically, more experienced players come to the casino. They are not as intimidated. Anyone can put money into an account and play online.
However, it is much more fun to play live. Maybe not more profitable, but definitely more fun. You get personal interaction. You can possibly read your opponents based on the way they act or look. It's fun just holding the cards or saying check or raise.
So back to my Canterbury experience. I was surprised to see what I found. 1 - I can only play one game at a time, Check. 2 - It is slower, Check. Although I was happy to see that they have automatic shufflers so the dealers don't have to reshuffle after each hand. This speeded things up a bit. 3 - I might have given tells. Not sure. I didn't pick anything up on anyone else though. More on this later. 4 - Waiting. We went on Sunday night and caught the tale end of the peak time, so we were able to sit down at a 3/6 table immediately. 5 - Tipping. Check. 6 - Better players. No check here. I was surprised to see how bad these players were.
As I was buying chips I see the 18-21 year old to my left catch an inside straight draw on the river to beat a set of aces. I sit down and he is talking junk. Singing at the table, talking about how good he is. He has a friend with him and someone his age at the opposite end of the table. This kid obviously is annoying everyone else at the table and I was happy to sit down while everyone was on tilt. So I pick up AK in the first round and raise from the CO (cut off, one to the right of the button). I notice as I'm betting that my hand is shaking. Wow. Obviously I don't play live much at a casino. I think there is a bid difference playing at home with your friends and playing at a casino with strangers. It is nerve racking. It was so bad that I even had to say something to the guy next to me. That obvious.
So I pick up my first pot and get talking a bit. Talking to the other players always makes me feel more comfortable. I start to settle down a bit and didn't have a problem with shaking for the rest of the night. I was just surprised that I was shaking at all. I was confident that I was a better poker player than 7 of the other 8 guys at my table. One solid player I would consider myself as good as. So back to my list. 3 - tells. Well, I was shaking so I gave a tell. Not sure if I gave any tells to anyone else. For one I think tells are overrated. For example, I pick up 77 in the bb and there are 6 players in the pot. This seems a lot for the 9 person table but it was actually common at this table.
Flop comes 732 rainbow. I would have checked it but I knew that no one at this table is folding so I bet instead. I figured that a check raise would slow people down more than a bet. Crazy young guy to my left raises and 3 players call. We end up capping the flop. Two bets get in on the turn and finally one on the river. I took down a big pot. Now, did I pick up a tell that everyone was going to come along. Did they show strength. No. 90% of reading a player is just paying attention to his style of play. Does he play a lot of hands preflop? Is he aggressive preflop? How about postflop? Will he call the river all the time? Is he a tricky player raising on the river to see if you will fold?
After about ten minutes I saw the crazy kid to my left win two pots. One with 23o and the other with J7o. Must be crazy right? Everyone else thought so. They refused to fold and would even raise on the turn and river. This kid just played a different style. He played nearly every hand and then he was aggressive post flop. However, if he was beat, he wouldn't put extra bets in on the turn and river when the cost was $6 instead of $3. But when he did pick up a pot he definitely got paid. I saw someone cap the river with him with A high. The kid had three of a kind with K8s.
Now to number 6 - skill level of live players. I was shocked at how many hands people played. I was also shocked at how little raising there was to protect a hand. The only guys raising were me, the crazy kid next to me and the tricky guy to the left of him. I would bet or raise when I had something or was making a continuation bet (bet preflop and then make a continuation bet postflop even if you didn't pick up a pair). The kid would bet constantly in the first two rounds or when he had something in the later rounds or could buy a pot. The tricky guy would only raise preflop and postflop. I found this out after I bet to the river with my AK without catching anything. Crazy kid called, tricky guy raised, I folded and crazy kid called. Tricky guy flips over Ace high with Q kicker. Crazy kid takes the pot down with a pair of threes. I made the correct fold because I knew someone had me beat, but I remembered that play for later. One more hand to talk about.
I pick up AJ on the button. I raise and tricky bb reraises. I reraise when it gets back to me and there is one player who comes along with us. Flop is J83 with two diamonds. I have the J of diamonds so I have top pair with top kicker. Tricky BB player bets and the MP player folds. I raise and he reraises. I reraise and as he is stacking chips the dealer is leaning over so I can't see the BB player who is sitting in seat 1. I ask, "Are you capping it" and I learned lesson one. There is no cap in heads up play at Canterbury. If you are only with one other player they will let you raise and reraise eachother until someone has all there money in the pot. Why? Because at any point someone can just call to stop the betting. So he reraises and I just call. I wanted to prevent my opponent for picking up a free card if he had a Queen or King but I didn't want to risk too much considering he could be sitting with QQ, KK, AA or a flopped set.
The turn card was a non diamond 3 and he checks. I look at him and said, "well you might be slow playing me here, but I'm going to bet anyway". Why wouldn't he bet there if he had me beat? I've already showed I am willing to cap it. He just called and I knew I had the best hand. The turn was an Ace of diamonds. Okay, I just picked up two pair in a big pot, but do I really like this river card? He could have a flush now and I could be in trouble. He checks and I decide to bet. Why? Because this guy had been loose and I think he could have been calling with an AK or AQ. I wanted to make a value bet. He thought about it and raised.
Now if this was a solid player that didn't like to be tricky I would have simply called and paid the flush or set off. But this guy had seen me fold AK when he raised with his AQ before. Better yet, he didn't know I had AK so he probably assumed I was willing to fold a good hand. So instead of just calling, I wanted to value bet again. I don't think he would have capped the betting on a draw because he hadn't been that aggressive chasing earlier, so I couldn't put him on a flush. I still had him on an Ace with a high kicker or a pocket pair. Maybe QQ or maybe TT or 99. QQ because it makes sense from a betting standpoint. I capped the J high flop and 3 bet the preflop so he might think I have AA or KK. Or he might think I have AK so he wants to see if his TT or 99 is good. When the A came I think it was the perfect card for me. It scared me and the tricky player knew it. So he decided to check raise to see if I would fold my big hand to a potential flush. He also could have put me on a KK or QQ and thought I might fold when the A came on the river.
I raised and he called. I had to show my hand and I flipped over AJ and won the pot. I didn't get to see his hand because he mucked them after seeing mine. The great thing about online play is that you can utilize the hand history. Not only can you analyze your play, but if there are two players or more who call a river bet you can see what both of them held as their pocket cards. Therefore, you can see what style of player your opponent is. I will never know what my opponent had, but I was able to make three big bets on him or $18 more dollars because I had paid attention and knew what type of player he was.
All in all it was a fun time.
After playing considerably more poker I felt better equipped when I played once this summer. I ended up breaking even which was probably about right for my experience at the time. When I visited this time I had an entirely new perspective. I was expecting to win. The truth is I probably could have made more money playing at home on Party Poker, but playing live is a lot of fun and slightly more enjoyable. The downfall to playing live?
(1) You can only play one game at a time. I have been regularly playing four 2/4 games at a time on party recently. I can handle the speed. I feel I can make solid decisions and might make one bad decision or so every hour. But for every one bad decision I miss on one table, I make up for it by still being a positive expected player on the other three.
(2) It is slower. The number of hands you can play in an hour is considerably less. On the computer hands are dealt instantly, while at the casino you need to wait for the dealer to actually deal the cards. I know, bizarre. People tend to play slower at the casino as well. Some people don't want to give any tells so they play it like the World Series of Poker. Online, there are buttons that you can click (fold, check, raise) so your turn lasts less than a half second.
(3) You might give tells you never knew you had. Do I look a certain way when I'm strong or glance to my left when I'm bluffing? By playing online the only thing you have to be careful about is the speed of your bet (Some players online will bet quickly when they have a hand and slow down when they don't). The most obvious online tell is when someone is chasing a flush. Often times they will quickly call. If you get a very quick call, your opponent is probably on a flush or straight draw.
(4) Waiting. Sometimes you have to wait for a seat to open up. You might wait 2 hours if it a busy time. Online you can fire up a game within seconds.
(5) Tipping. No need to tip online. At the casino you are expected to give a portion of your winnings to the dealer as thanks for him dealing you great cards. Even if he didn't give you great cards at all but you were savvy enough to play them better than your opponents.
(6) Better players. Theoretically, more experienced players come to the casino. They are not as intimidated. Anyone can put money into an account and play online.
However, it is much more fun to play live. Maybe not more profitable, but definitely more fun. You get personal interaction. You can possibly read your opponents based on the way they act or look. It's fun just holding the cards or saying check or raise.
So back to my Canterbury experience. I was surprised to see what I found. 1 - I can only play one game at a time, Check. 2 - It is slower, Check. Although I was happy to see that they have automatic shufflers so the dealers don't have to reshuffle after each hand. This speeded things up a bit. 3 - I might have given tells. Not sure. I didn't pick anything up on anyone else though. More on this later. 4 - Waiting. We went on Sunday night and caught the tale end of the peak time, so we were able to sit down at a 3/6 table immediately. 5 - Tipping. Check. 6 - Better players. No check here. I was surprised to see how bad these players were.
As I was buying chips I see the 18-21 year old to my left catch an inside straight draw on the river to beat a set of aces. I sit down and he is talking junk. Singing at the table, talking about how good he is. He has a friend with him and someone his age at the opposite end of the table. This kid obviously is annoying everyone else at the table and I was happy to sit down while everyone was on tilt. So I pick up AK in the first round and raise from the CO (cut off, one to the right of the button). I notice as I'm betting that my hand is shaking. Wow. Obviously I don't play live much at a casino. I think there is a bid difference playing at home with your friends and playing at a casino with strangers. It is nerve racking. It was so bad that I even had to say something to the guy next to me. That obvious.
So I pick up my first pot and get talking a bit. Talking to the other players always makes me feel more comfortable. I start to settle down a bit and didn't have a problem with shaking for the rest of the night. I was just surprised that I was shaking at all. I was confident that I was a better poker player than 7 of the other 8 guys at my table. One solid player I would consider myself as good as. So back to my list. 3 - tells. Well, I was shaking so I gave a tell. Not sure if I gave any tells to anyone else. For one I think tells are overrated. For example, I pick up 77 in the bb and there are 6 players in the pot. This seems a lot for the 9 person table but it was actually common at this table.
Flop comes 732 rainbow. I would have checked it but I knew that no one at this table is folding so I bet instead. I figured that a check raise would slow people down more than a bet. Crazy young guy to my left raises and 3 players call. We end up capping the flop. Two bets get in on the turn and finally one on the river. I took down a big pot. Now, did I pick up a tell that everyone was going to come along. Did they show strength. No. 90% of reading a player is just paying attention to his style of play. Does he play a lot of hands preflop? Is he aggressive preflop? How about postflop? Will he call the river all the time? Is he a tricky player raising on the river to see if you will fold?
After about ten minutes I saw the crazy kid to my left win two pots. One with 23o and the other with J7o. Must be crazy right? Everyone else thought so. They refused to fold and would even raise on the turn and river. This kid just played a different style. He played nearly every hand and then he was aggressive post flop. However, if he was beat, he wouldn't put extra bets in on the turn and river when the cost was $6 instead of $3. But when he did pick up a pot he definitely got paid. I saw someone cap the river with him with A high. The kid had three of a kind with K8s.
Now to number 6 - skill level of live players. I was shocked at how many hands people played. I was also shocked at how little raising there was to protect a hand. The only guys raising were me, the crazy kid next to me and the tricky guy to the left of him. I would bet or raise when I had something or was making a continuation bet (bet preflop and then make a continuation bet postflop even if you didn't pick up a pair). The kid would bet constantly in the first two rounds or when he had something in the later rounds or could buy a pot. The tricky guy would only raise preflop and postflop. I found this out after I bet to the river with my AK without catching anything. Crazy kid called, tricky guy raised, I folded and crazy kid called. Tricky guy flips over Ace high with Q kicker. Crazy kid takes the pot down with a pair of threes. I made the correct fold because I knew someone had me beat, but I remembered that play for later. One more hand to talk about.
I pick up AJ on the button. I raise and tricky bb reraises. I reraise when it gets back to me and there is one player who comes along with us. Flop is J83 with two diamonds. I have the J of diamonds so I have top pair with top kicker. Tricky BB player bets and the MP player folds. I raise and he reraises. I reraise and as he is stacking chips the dealer is leaning over so I can't see the BB player who is sitting in seat 1. I ask, "Are you capping it" and I learned lesson one. There is no cap in heads up play at Canterbury. If you are only with one other player they will let you raise and reraise eachother until someone has all there money in the pot. Why? Because at any point someone can just call to stop the betting. So he reraises and I just call. I wanted to prevent my opponent for picking up a free card if he had a Queen or King but I didn't want to risk too much considering he could be sitting with QQ, KK, AA or a flopped set.
The turn card was a non diamond 3 and he checks. I look at him and said, "well you might be slow playing me here, but I'm going to bet anyway". Why wouldn't he bet there if he had me beat? I've already showed I am willing to cap it. He just called and I knew I had the best hand. The turn was an Ace of diamonds. Okay, I just picked up two pair in a big pot, but do I really like this river card? He could have a flush now and I could be in trouble. He checks and I decide to bet. Why? Because this guy had been loose and I think he could have been calling with an AK or AQ. I wanted to make a value bet. He thought about it and raised.
Now if this was a solid player that didn't like to be tricky I would have simply called and paid the flush or set off. But this guy had seen me fold AK when he raised with his AQ before. Better yet, he didn't know I had AK so he probably assumed I was willing to fold a good hand. So instead of just calling, I wanted to value bet again. I don't think he would have capped the betting on a draw because he hadn't been that aggressive chasing earlier, so I couldn't put him on a flush. I still had him on an Ace with a high kicker or a pocket pair. Maybe QQ or maybe TT or 99. QQ because it makes sense from a betting standpoint. I capped the J high flop and 3 bet the preflop so he might think I have AA or KK. Or he might think I have AK so he wants to see if his TT or 99 is good. When the A came I think it was the perfect card for me. It scared me and the tricky player knew it. So he decided to check raise to see if I would fold my big hand to a potential flush. He also could have put me on a KK or QQ and thought I might fold when the A came on the river.
I raised and he called. I had to show my hand and I flipped over AJ and won the pot. I didn't get to see his hand because he mucked them after seeing mine. The great thing about online play is that you can utilize the hand history. Not only can you analyze your play, but if there are two players or more who call a river bet you can see what both of them held as their pocket cards. Therefore, you can see what style of player your opponent is. I will never know what my opponent had, but I was able to make three big bets on him or $18 more dollars because I had paid attention and knew what type of player he was.
All in all it was a fun time.
posted by Steve K at 1:36 PM
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